Why Intel Joined Elon’s Terafab

Kind: captions Language: en Most investors are not yet realizing how big and how important Tesla and SpaceX have and are about to become, not just as companies, as strategic assets. Two things happened this week that should make that very clear. First, Intel just announced it's joining Terrafab. Intel, the biggest American chipmaker, partnering with Tesla, SpaceX, and XEI to build the most ambitious semiconductor factory in history. Intel said it'll contribute its capabilities in designing, fabricating, and packaging ultra high performance chips at scale. That's not a side deal. That's one of America's most important chip companies going allin on Elon's vision. Second, the Wall Street Journal just published the piece arguing that Starship Heavy could revolutionize warfare. The concept. The United States could park thousands of precision munitions in low Earth orbit, ready to strike anywhere on Earth within minutes without putting a single American soldier at risk. No planes, no aircraft carriers, just orbital weapons deployed by Starship at a fraction of current costs. These aren't just stock opportunities anymore. Tesla and SpaceX are becoming vital resources to the United States government and to society as a whole. energy, transportation, AI, chips, defense, space, all of it running through Elon's companies. Today, we're going to break down why this matters and what it means for Tesla investors who are still thinking about this as a car company. Let's get into it. We've got Joe Backne here with us. He's an economist, investor, and tech entrepreneur. He has a YouTube channel covering both Tesla and AGI. Check out his website and community, pioneerlands.org. Welcome, Joe. >> Good to be back. Let's talk space. Yeah, this is one of your favorite topics because you've been pointing this out that Tesla and SpaceX aren't just other car companies you can invest in. This is bigger. Um, Space Dome was one that you brought up a while back that people haven't really talked about other than just, you know, moon bases and AI data centers, Starlink, but Space Dome changes the game if that's the case. Uh before we get there though, big news is Intel announced that they're joining the Terra Fab project with SpaceX, XAI, and Tesla to help refactor silicon fab technology. Our abil our ability to design, fabricate, and package ultra high performance chips at scale will help accelerate Terraab's aim to produce one terowatt per year of compute to power future advances in AI robotics. It was fun hosting Elon at Intel this past weekend. Here's a photo of the CEO of Intel and uh Elon Lip Banan. The CEO said Elon has a proven track record of reimagining entire industries. This is exactly what is needed in semiconductor manufacturing today. Terrafab represents a step change in how silicon logic, memory, and packaging will get built in the future. Intel's proud to be a partner and work closely with Elon on this highly strategic project. What was your thoughts on this Elon Intel announcement? Well, I think it's very smart. It makes total sense for two reasons. Number one, uh or for three reasons. Uh number one, uh Terrafab is a big ambitious project and quite frankly Tesla doesn't have the internal skills to do these kinds of things, right? These are extremely complicated things and you need to buy or acquire or partner with people who who know how to do these things. the details, all the millions, billions of little details of actually building these factories and delivering chips. I think Tesla can totally leaprog and design, but execution is a different thing. And you want so number one, Tesla needs someone. Number two, American is best for this whole situation because this be ultra strategic. You don't want to be at the mercy of Taiwanese or Korean uh technology even though they're great but it's a national security issue of enormous proportions the whole thing. So >> obviously American is better then you need uh Intel is a perfect match because they still have probably great capabilities. They're the ugly duckling duckling of semiconductors because they're failing big like Broadcom beats them badly. Nvidia beats them mega badly. AMD beats them. Everyone beats them and they are in a totally depressed state. The old like great Intel and so they need some sexiness and power and growth and they can't get it themselves. I think it's a very strategically smart move if they would align themselves more with Tesla. Tesla could probably buy them at some point. Would be worth it now that they're going all into chips, but that's up to Intel to figure out if that's good. And uh I think Tesla definitely needs some form of partner. They had Samsung before, but as I said, like this is a national security issue. Um, so yes, smart move. Let's see what happens. Totally on strategy. Uh, I think there will be a whole revolution in chip manufacturing and I think it will all come down to Elon's core strengths. And by the way, it's not that Elon is like God and has only strengths. He has specific strengths and I think his strengths are that they're not in like deep high-tech chip manufacturing and being the best in the world like Nvidia. That's absolutely would be dumb to try that because they're going to fail if they just go ahead. It's like competing with Amazon on perfect retail logistics. You can't win this. But they need something very different. They need massive unlimited scale of chips which is a whole new problem. and they need to vertically integrate it into unlimited energy situations where energy is free in space. So a very different design proposition and they need inference of course massive inference. So these open up great opportunities for Elon because Elon's core strength I'm not saying it because I'm an economist but Elon's magic weapon is economics. He understands where the money is. That's how he built all his companies. He knows he has the magic key. Okay, if I nail this one thing, I just win everything because of economics. And he understands this with space AI. Wait a moment. I can change the game. I can build vertically integrated inference satellites. And the chip requirements are totally different. And the good news is they are actually much lower tech than Nvidia chip requirements. They just need to be produced at unlimited scale at reasonable costs. And this is a beautiful that's why this is an absolute home run in the making. Terrafab is an absolute home run in the making because ultimately it's actually easy. I know people think I'm crazy when I say this, but it's ultimately an easy task compared to FSD to Optimus to Starship. This is the easiest thing. Not saying I can just do it from my desk. You need still Intel and massive things, but there's no first principle difficulty in there. The opposite is true. It's relatively easy. The same with AI satellites. That's why this will be the biggest slam dunk ever. That's why >> Yeah. You were saying um which makes sense. It is of course very difficult to be a silicon fab company, but Elon's focus is very specific to what his company needs. The the cars, the robots, he's already designed AI5. It's very very very specifically to inference and he's got that design architecture already decided criteria versus in Nvidia they need to create a GPU that powers any any company that decides that they need it whatever system they want to put it in it needs to be able to accommodate those >> under enormous under enormous energy constraints cost con all these things. So I think the paradigm shift of Terrafab is enormous from a management and engineering perspective. you go from, oh, how do we beat this niche and this niche and how do we make sure AMD can't attack us and Broadcom can't attack us under these very clear engineering constraints on Earth suddenly go to space and they're completely different and many of them are infinitely easier but you have new tasks and for example the task that people don't understand and Elon understands very well you need unlimited chips so you need to think it's like optimist what people don't understand optimist oh the Chinese can do summer salts and loops and stuff and you know it's like I don't care. My problem is how do I manufacture a 100red million and then a billion of these things. I don't want to start if I can't do it. >> Yes. >> And with the chips is the same thing. I don't want to manufacture like a billion chips. I want to manufacture unlimited chips. >> And that's what this thing has to be optimized for. No one thinks like that. Everyone thinks like but how like what are you talking about? So that will turn out to be the big biggest slam dunk in my opinion. And and the other thing that there's so many angles to this that I think is so important. You you mentioned a few, but one that I think is so critical is that here's Elon basically able to partner with whoever he wants to partner with and to commit as you know in the case of Samsung everything that they make out of factory one in Taylor, Texas. And then Samsung announced they're about to make a factory 2 in Taylor, Texas. And Tesla gets all of it. Everything you make, we get. And then they go, "That's not enough. I'm gonna partner with Intel, too. And I I bet you >> Well, the advantage of Intel, what Samsung cannot do is Intel can do a very specific deal. They can make a deal that Elon says, "If you do that, I'm going to buy you for three times the current stock price." >> Yeah, they could be for that, too. But also, you got Intel, but you pointed out that they're American based here, which is great. And then maybe they'll partner with AMD. But here's the point. Here's Elon, and he can basically get what he needs. number one because he's proven it with his companies and the scale that he's doing at he's going to lock down these major companies. What happens to the competitors? What happens to them? They need to scramble. They need to find out how I'm going to get my little piece of what I need or they're going to have to bring down their scale or what they're wanting. >> I mean, I believe it's like I have to look up the market cap. I'm not familiar, but they're probably not they're probably 200 billion or something. I don't know. >> Yeah, I looked them up just before we had this show and uh yeah, they're not they're not big. They're like you said, they're struggling. Um but yeah, I don't know if he's gonna buy Intel. He doesn't he never Tesla's Elon is not about buying Intel. They're not about buying anybody. They're just gonna they're building its chips. I mean, Intel is cheap relatively and still probably has a lot of engineering talent and stuff. And he bought stuff for cheaper, but he bought the German the robot factory which was extremely important for a billion. That's true. Drives all of the Tesla. >> So the specific technology he might buy. Yep. Interesting. We'll see. You might be right. So, this is uh Tesla themselves announces Intel's joining Terafab. Tesla, XAI, SpaceX are launching the most epic chip building effort ever. Number one, and two, combining logic, memory, advanced packaging under one roof. This is something that's never been done before. Everything under one roof. Elon was very excited the last few days. And then there is a new Terrafab website. Um, people are loving this new website. This is gorgeous. But basically civilization type two cardv scale look at that >> type three like if you can use the power of the sun if you can use >> is only for long-term investors I tell you >> type one is all long >> type two I'm in type two we can pull off the the uh the solar system is reasonable in reach but type three that's for your kids for the kids portfolio. the galactic. >> It's going to be way beyond your kids, dude. It's a kids. Your kids kids. >> I know. >> Uh, it's taking longer than people think to >> lunar mass drivers. Yeah. Beautiful website that shows you the whole vision, but basically everybody knows this, should know this. Elon is thinking big, bigger than anyone else. Then he can get any partner he wants. But I think what's what makes me so excited you you know how I think in the end I'm an investor and an economist. I need to see the meat. And the funny thing is with space there are two things about space that excite me. It's way bigger than anyone thinks and it's way sooner than anyone thinks. That's the magic combination. Way bigger and way sooner. Kadeshf 2 is enough for us. That's already a lot of money. That's already unlimited money. And I mean even one even a million% of Kyle shift 2 is unlimited money but that's one thing it's big but it's also imminent. That's what the people get wrong at the millisecond where Starship cost per kilogram to orbit is under 200 bucks which will be in 2027 in my opinion in our projections. So at this millisecond we are ready. Space AI will be cheaper than terrestrial data next year. >> End of next year it's game over. Everything will go to space immediately. People don't get it. It's like, why would you build a data center that's more expensive if you can get it for half the price? No one's going to pay double for what? But what does it mean? It all goes to space. That's why they need an IPO now. That's why they need 75 billion because half of that or whatever goes straight into capex for manufacturing thousands of starships. Once this version works, which could be this year, they can go into mass manufacturing because there will be unlimited demand and it's not hard to understand. You don't need any assumptions. It's just if you assume AI works and if you assume there's unlimited demand, which is obvious and you assume people therefore will build data centers, you already are there. This is unlimited space demand. >> So this is the the unlock that just happened last year though. So for years I was not interested in space. I couldn't understand the logic of what the space market is. I get it. I get that, you know, that's the interesting thing. Elon made like some crazy leap because he didn't know. He didn't know. >> I don't think he knew either. Right. So, what what happened was space uh I get that lots of technologies built for space and that then turns into real technologies that you can sell on Earth. I get that part. Okay. I understand that. But I other than Starlink which is a massive business. I got that part. Okay. Starlink is now equivalent to the size of robo taxi. So, and it's coming. It's here. It's already resol. It's already out there and 10 million users and satellites and V3 is coming out. That's great. Then the leap to that to what is next? The only thing I thought of was asteroid mining. That would be huge if they can do astro mining. And of course there's energy, but that was never discussed or planned or anybody discussed that. Now all of a sudden >> now in the last 6 months a year all of a sudden AI has taken off on earth data center has taken off on earth. Trillions of dollars of data centers being built on earth. Now all of a sudden AI data centers in space become a thing. >> It's the magic. There's first principal thinking like FSD and EV and there's meta first principle thinking with meta. That's like the high art. The meta first principal thinking means you have a revelation. That is absolutely true. But there is a leap of faith because it's unclear even if it would become true how this actually exactly works economically. The only comparison for in in my world in pioneer lens I have to that is like my crazy fanatic conviction with education right that I'm saying Pioneer Academy is I'm fanatically building this stuff for 20 years now thinking about it and now it all comes together. But I always knew yeah in the end humans they walk around they're little humans and then they need to have education and if that's wrong everything >> first principal thinking and then eventually things layer on technologies come at the right time. >> Exactly. Sometimes something takes 20 years like Starship and you and Elon thought it's just obvious to him we need very cheap space orbital lift capability. I don't know how >> lots of businesses will come. First is Starling. Pretty obvious, right? That was obvious. And then the second thing was all of a sudden AI data center has become a thing. But now that pays for unlimited energy. Now that you have unlimited energy, it's because you go to the sun every year. >> But the absolutely crazy thing is that is within a 20 year or more than 26 years. This has been ongoing for 24 or five years now. SpaceX on a 25 year time scale that this hits randomly something completely orthogonal completely not even expected by Elon within one year it hits exactly that inflection point exactly after 26 years of Starship now becoming ready within one year with AGI coming that this hits each other it's like really crazy >> AI data center revenue stream is huge which then unlocks uh energy >> actually tweeted about Elon posted about that. What I'm saying is he said that he can't even believe this whole thing. He he actually exposes like how is this >> at the time that Starship heavy is is about to approve itself. So okay that so all that made sense. The other revenue stream that um also made sense is government is government paying for stardome or yeah >> space dome and then um and then uh so here is the latest article written on world street journal an opinion piece said Elon Musk's starship heavy could revolutionize warfare the US could keep powerful munitions in orbit to deploy deployed quickly and without risk to American troops. Um and uh so what he's saying here is that you know you but you can redraw the map of Earth by fundamentally changing the geography of warfare. So in to strike Iran in June a fleet of B2 bombers each carry two 30,000 pound bombs. The round trip took 37 hours, cost $135,000 per travel hour, and then if the Iran's air defense had been functioning, the strike would have been riskier because they can just shoot these things down. What if you had Starship have these bombs at that that space height and then they can redirect it to where they want to land it? >> Because if you do the war math, the war economics, you need intercontinental ballistic missiles, which are very expensive. you need to maintain them. You need to have warheads on them. What people don't understand is if you have stuff in space, you don't need warheads. You just need mass. Because if if that thing hits you with like a 35 mark, like a ton of steel, that's much better than any warhead. You're just dead. >> I don't know. I guess I have to figure that one out. Whether or not you >> like if you drop just steel things, they had it all figured out. The math was already done, I think, by some. >> No, I I I have to re I have to challenge that one. I'll have to see. You know that if you dropped a you name it, a marble and it's not like it's going to be so painful like when it hits you at the ground and you dropped it higher and higher and higher, it doesn't hurt you because there's a equivalence at some point of its speed and its weight. >> No, you can you can look it up. They did the math. You can just drop these things. It is like meteors. They're very powerful. All right. If you drop these things from orbit, >> uh it would be enough. You can look it up. If you have these, uh how are they called these? If you transport 150 tons, like 150 one ton steel things up to space and let them hang out there with a little maneuvering things. Of course, that's more than you need. That's better than a 30,000 pound bomb. And then do the math if that's true. If the lift costs you whatever the the estimation is 25 million for 150 of these warheads up there, that's the cost. That's like dramatic. >> I mean, it has to go through the Earth's atmosphere, but okay. So, I don't know. We'll we'll take a look at that. And it says here that Starship will make it possible to use low Earth orbit as a parking lot for giant space-based arsenal. This would allow the US to preposition conventional munitions with ablation shields and inertial guidance systems to strike anywhere on Earth within minutes. Putting tens of thousands of small munitions into orbit would become cost effective by estimate at around $100 a kilogram. You were talking $200 a kilogram. One second bring it down to that. Oh well, bunker busters, kinetic weapons, anti-personnel, fuel air explosive, cluster munitions, anti-tank. Yeah, with sophisticated terminal guidance. Interesting. Anyways, the point being that this Oh. Oh, and he also says this, this is an opinion piece. It's crucial that the US deploy this capability first. Key technologies going into Starship need to be treated as national secrets and leaking these ideas to China should be regarded as treason. So all of a sudden Tesla's companies SpaceX in this case is not just a company that you want to invest in. It's becoming key technology that treated as national security secrets. Yeah. There's also besides like our our kinetic weapon theories here that everyone can look up if that works or not. Um there is also the general military doctrine that's very important higher ground doctrine that was true forever like for the last 5,000 years that whoever has the higher ground will win. I mean is or has an enormous strategic advantage and higher ground means who's like higher and that goes to artillery then into planes then into rockets. And if you dominate the higher ground, like back in the days when you had two armies and one army could go up here, you can just shoot your arrows f further and then the enem is dead. They just sit there and get destroyed. Or if your planes fly higher or faster, the other person is dead. That's why they always compete to have the same speed. And now you have the situation where the other side just lost for at least five or 10 years against SpaceX. That's why this is extremely strategic. Uh because if you can dominate space by a factor of 100 or 1,000 in terms of lift capability, this is just game over. You can deploy all the satellites, you can shoot down the other people's satellites, you can drop bombs, you can do whatever you want. And that's just the beginning. You can also of course occupy the moon. Like people don't fully get what that means. Like we talk about rare earths. China can choke off the US from rare earths. Okay, they have like one gram more compared to the moon and the US still has the rare earth. If you own the moon, I mean people don't understand the moon is big. >> You can't own the moon, but you can build whatever you want to build at the moon. >> I was gonna ask you this question, Joe, because uh we are almost at the point and tell me if you agree that the companies companies are becoming bigger than countries. >> It has been all predicted. I recommend the amazing science fiction novel Snow Crash >> from the 90s. And snow crash is this vision or the science f it's not a vision it's it starts with the pizza driver and he drives through the dystopian new world where the states are the governments are gone it's all corporations and we have seen in all these Hollywood movies everyone knows that in the future corporations take over but what people don't get is that this is happening now like in 10 years it's game over that's what I'm predicting >> oh man >> not just Tesla it's going to be the Mac 7 plus some new like open AI Okay. And and anthropic people >> and look at I mean anthropic just hit 30 billion annual run rate and they they will hit a trillion soon. I guarantee you and it's you know they will just eat the whole earth up and then Tesla don't get me started. I mean they will just be you know Nvidia is probably first going to hit a trillion of all of these in revenue. Then there will be already the what the 10th largest or the eighth largest economy on earth just Nvidia. Then Tesla comes out of left field comes number three. So it's going to be interesting. And the US everyone says but what about the US? They can't overtake the US because they're part of it. Well I would argue they already overtook the US because if you look at politics I think the influence of Silicon Valley is underrated. This whole thing is already owned. Did you hear Herbert? Did you hear that's I don't know if it's true but it was reported in a bunch of news outlets that Trump had a call with Modi. Did you hear that? >> No. >> They had a telephone call about Q strategy and Elon was on the call. >> Okay. What's the point? >> The point is that if two heads of state have a confidential call, normally there's no Elon on the call. >> Oh, I I saw that. Yes. Yes. I remember there. I know. I know what you're talking about now. Like why was Elon there? Like why was Elon there? Like what? >> Also, no one is allowed in there. This is like two the two of the largest states in the world and they're doing some secret talk and Elon is just, "Okay, let me just hang out here." >> I get what you're saying. >> That's insane. >> Yeah, it's funny. All right. I was just looking for a a video. Sorry about that. So, I wanted to ask you this. Where are you at with this uh potential for SpaceX and Tesla to actually merge sometime? Uh I want to play this. Chamat was interviewed or was at the all-In podcast and this is what he said. >> What are the chances that Tesla after if this IPO goes well that Tesla and SpaceX could wind up being the same company? We saw they're collaborating >> on a fab. 100% is what you're putting it on. >> Okay. >> Okay. Sorry, let me let me be clear. 99.999%. >> Okay. What will that mean when the if those two companies or when those two companies merge? This SpaceX IPO is going to set up a couple of things. The first is there's going to be the natural noise in the market and Elon will have to sort through all of the little ticky tacky things. But the most important positive thing that will happen from the IPO is a validated external mark-to-market valuation of SpaceX. And the market every day in real time gives you a valid mark-to-market assessment of the value of Tesla. And this allows you to put these two things together to minimize these losses. >> And I think that that's what Elon really needs. It'll make his life tremendously simpler from a governance perspective. It'll make the companies and this quibbling about his time a non-issue because again nobody talks about Zuck or Satya or Sundar or Jensen allocating time across various projects inside of Meta or Google or Microsoft or Nvidia. nor should they really make this claim from Elon because as you're seeing there's actually an enormous overlap and commonality to the various things that he is doing. He's building the robots but they're used inside of SpaceX. He's building a terra fab they're used inside of Tesla. He's building XAI they're used across both. So I think we need to do this. It'll minimize the shareholder noise because it'll give less room to somebody that says, "Hey, he set a valuation out of thin air." >> But dollars to donuts, these things are going to merge >> 100%. Where are you at? >> Yeah, roughly there. Never 100%. But yeah, something like 99.99 because it's like, you know, put yourself into Elon's shoes. Once you exceed a certain amount of age, actually, not even anything else, you real like I don't have that much time. I need to get stuff done. It's annoying. I don't like friction. And when you look at Tesla and SpaceX, yeah, I mean, we have a plan. Kardashev 2 later, Kardashev 3. There is no time to do stupid things like, oh, here are the little EVs and here's this and here's that and here's this board and here's that board and here's the judge that can sue me for everything. Of course, it's stupid. This is about optimizing progress per time. And in order to do that, so you need to remove friction. And of course, these companies belong together. They do the same thing. They're creating sustainable unlimited abundance. So why split it up and have all the annoyances? So I think it's absolutely necessary. It's going to be X Corp or something. Elon always said it. He had X.com. I don't know back in the days, PayPal days. >> Sense too, right? XL. >> It could be anything. Um it is it is like if it was just one thing you know like this one company needs one thing from another company that's okay then you don't have to merge but if it's like too many to count in your hand but this SpaceX needs like eight things from Tesla Tesla needs five things from SpaceX and three things from XA you know it's it's just way too many things >> it's not about even the like people have to we always joke oh Tesla is just a car company that's like the ultimate joke because we understand it's But we are now moving like things happen so fast and you know my key bullish argument for everything is actually not Elon and it's not Tesla not SpaceX it's AGI like we are moving as we speak in 2026 through the inflection point where everything all the reality can be now engineered I always said it like 10 years ago but now is the time >> that becomes super true and if you think I'm smart or you're smart. We're building our little agents. What do you think Elon does all day and thousands, tens of thousands of his people? So, this will get so huge and governments forget governments. They are going to take over the moon and then space and this needs this is a giant vortex. And if I say like, oh, they're going to buy Intel, I think these things can easily happen, right? If if they're at six trillion or something and they have to buy them for 5% for 300 billion and >> that's a very very good point. So the way AGI works it's as people understand it's an exponential curve. In fact maybe even a double exponential or triple exponential which means that nothing happens for decades then all of a sudden very slowly over five years whatever it becomes smarter than a monkey whatever but it when it starts to move up the exponent curve it will only take less than a week or hours to not only hit human level but surpass it to be you know unbelievable like hours. kidding. I I just >> let me finish my thought here because the reason why that's so important now is that whoever is there even like if you're ahead of if if Google's ahead of Tesla with one month just one month ahead they win like that's it because that AGI can basically then take care of everything all >> business like it's it's going to be complicated but whatever it is we are already at that specific moment And I think we crossed that moment only three weeks ago or something. Yeah. >> Like open claw and and this like what do you think Nvidia does? They announced new neo Neo claw Nemo claw >> claw Nemo claw. Yeah. Their version >> in the middle like I'm on it every day and I was like this is all nuts. like I'm doing all my financial models suddenly like my the speed to a financial model for SpaceX and Tesla just in the last week has like been cut by 99% for me >> using the AIs that are available for you >> and so whoever's got it accelerates and that's why Elon needs to just combine all the companies together to give him the best chance to be so far ahead of everyone else. >> Yeah. Then people when when these Wall Streeters say like oh but what about Kip X and blah blah blah and Drobo taxi scaling? What if it's only scarce? Not getting it. >> They don't understand what's happening. >> They're like caught in the in the noise. This is big stuff. And Elon is not the only one who understands it. I tell you, Google understands it. Anthropology understands it. Amazon understand. They all the Chinese understand. This is on. The race is on. And they're not even talking to everyone anymore. They just, okay, get it done. Like, grab as much land as you can. Nvidia definitely gets it. So, interesting times. That's also why no one is hesitating anymore when it comes to space and going space. Everyone's like, "Yes, yes, Amazon. Yes." And when you, this is my last point for today. >> What is really interesting to me is when you look at the Wall Streeters who are normally a little behind, Fidelity, other super large funds, when they talk about SpaceX, they understand everything I just said. They say >> they're all on board. Hopefully you're right because Tesla Elon will need to get them to vote for Tesla to support a merger and I hope >> well let me say they're all on board for the SpaceX vision which is quite something that they're saying it's worth two trillion with whatever 15 billion revenue they all on board they're saying we get it this is the strategic asset space AI they're talking about space AI fidelity the head of equities so very interesting times that suddenly all these guys completely get it >> the entire global money class gets it. So we this will be very interesting. >> Thank you so much. That was fun conversation. Always a pleasure. And this is the kind of things uh you and I just enjoy. Specifically you here you're the unique out there to be able to have have this conversation. Thank you so much Joe. Appreciate you. >> Thank you. I've created a website that is the most comprehensive resource for the Tesla investor. Please check it out. Simply go to my website at herdomm.com.